foolscapper:

thing-you-do-with-that-thing:

foolscapper:

thing-you-do-with-that-thing:

foolscapper:

“C’mon! Your heaven is somebody else’s Thanksgiving. Okay. It’s bailing on your family. What do you want me to say?” (5×16)

I get why Sam wanted to leave I do! – but the thing is he doesn’t see how much it hurt Dean every time he did. Dean had a chance to run – he chose not too because of Sam. He always chose Sam – so everytime Sam runs he takes a piece of his brother’s heart with him because he is not only leaving John. He is not only leaving the life. He is leaving the brother that did everything within his power to protect him and be there for him. He is leaving Dean. 

I don’t know how old this is because I just noticed it, but as the original creator I feel I should speak up:.. I think this is a little unfair for a number of reasons… One thing is that when Sam left, he wasn’t leaving his family in every sense of the word. When you move out of your house, nobody accuses you of leaving your family, of running away. And this is in a NORMAL AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT, unlike Sam’s. This is a terrible and weird expectation and description this fandom has bought into entirely from Dean’s (understandable) insecurities and character flaws, flaws we as an audience shouldn’t be taking at face value just because a character buys into it. We don’t buy into Dean’s belief that he is nothing but an expendable soldier in Trial and Error because we know his POV is not positive towards himself. What Dean perceives is not always true. He thinks Sam is abandoning him – Sam is merely fleeing a terrible lifestyle. Why is this being placed on Sam’s shoulders when it’s John (the parent’s) job to make a more comfortable and happy living space? Why isn’t it placed on John, who makes Dean feel his other child is Dean’s responsibility?

Another problem I have with this is that Sam never planned on cutting Dean and John out of his lives; he simply could NOT stay with them and also continue his own desires in life. It was a toxic environment, and not good, and he deserves to leave without reprimand. The thing is, he was disowned, told to never come back. And regardless of what John did – checking up in secret at a distance – Sam left with the full knowledge his family did not accept him for what he wanted. Dean says as much in S1, trying to steer Sam away from a normal life in the hopes he could reunify his family, which I understand – but it’s not acceptable to try to pull someone back into something they weren’t happy with.

I also feel it’s terrible to put the weight of Dean’s choices on Sam’s shoulders. Dean chose Sam at times, I get that and I think he was admirable in his attempt to provide where John did not always, but Sam was a *child* (of course, so was Dean!!) and Sam should not be at fault, should not be guilted, and should not have to answer to Dean for escaping why was still a dangerous lifestyle. If two children are in a household promoting dangerous life professions and one moves out as soon as they’re of age, we don’t criticize them for not listening to the other sibling asking them to stay. Dean is allowed to feel what he feels, and we can understand why, but none of this is Sam’s fault. Sam, who was hurt deeply by his childhood in different ways from his brother.

Just because someone elects to protect you or is even given the task of protecting you against their wishes doesn’t mean their feelings are prioritized over your future happiness after years of unhappiness. And nobody owns your decisions just because they looked after you when you were too small to do it yourself. We don’t do that with a parent and a child, or a sibling and a younger one. They are not entitled to your future just because you don’t want to live in the same house or occupation as them.

I don’t understand… Sam was clearly suffering too, clearly unhappy and dissatisfied, clearly felt unsafe and like an outcast in his family, but people often comment negatively about his constant desire for escape. Both boys are in pain, it’s true. Both boys deserve to leave if they want that. Why are we leaving negative comments when one finds the courage to walk away from the only thing they’ve ever known so they can find happiness…? I’ll never understand.

Dean’s feelings do matter. But they are often followed by unfair fingers pointed. You say Sam didn’t understand how he was hurting Dean by leaving. And there could be truth to that, considering how heavy Sam’s own aches were that it led him to running away when he could. But by that same token, Dean never understood how much hurt Sam carried with him in their childhoods and lifestyles either, if he only sees it as Sam abandoning him.

If you read my first sentence you will see I said I get why Sam wanted to leave. I get he was a smart kid. I get he was scared a lot in his childhood. I get a lot was put on him too.
All I am saying is Dean was 4 years older but still a kid. He was scared too. He had drilled “look out for your brother boy” into his head even though it never needed to be. He always chose Sam first. In everything he ever did he put him first.
Dean says they had thanksgiving because to him they did. They had each other. Sam dreamt of normalcy. When he yells at Sam for talking about their mother remember he was 4. He is a kid that remembers the heat and smells of the fire that took his mom away.
Sam doesn’t remember her which is a blessing aswell as a curse.
John made a lot of mistakes but he tried to protect his sons. No matter what John or Dean did Sam would always have been dragged into the life because of a deal his mother made. Sam’s faith is ultimately on her not his dad while Dean’s is though.

Dean always appeared to be happy in the life but he never was. He wanted normal too. He wanted to be a mechanic. He wanted a house. Wife. Kids. But he never wanted it without Sam. In the djinn dream he puts Sam’s happiness over his own. When he was with Lisa he never stopped searching for him. When he was at Sonny’s he walked out on his chance of normal for his brother.
I am not saying Sam is wrong in wanting normal and I do think Dean got that and that is why he never reached out to him the two years he was at standford. All I said was I get why Dean was hurt when he saw Sam’s heaven didn’t include him when he has put his brother first in everything he did.
No Dean is not perfect! He has a temper and he says crap out of anger. He is horrible at telling people how he feels but he is good at showing it. Sam should have known how important he was/is too him.
I do think he knows today though. And this is not Sam hate. I love him! I relate to Dean a little better but Sam is amazing too!

I appreciate that you like Sam! If my comment sounds harsh in any spot it’s only out of tiredness.

I will get my usual “I do not agree at all that John did the best he could for his children” line out of the way, and have no desire to talk about that in detail, as I’ve done that before and it usually just ends in walking in circles. Sorry, not really my thing as of late!

My biggest issue with your original comment, and why I commented, is that you are making this Sam post (a post about about *why* he was well-deserved in leaving behind a clearly painful childhood and offered his side of view) about Dean’s feelings instead. This post is about providing insight on why Sam’s heaven has no “family” memories – on why he he wasn’t “bailing” on his family when he was out-running a turbulent and terrible lifestyle that hurt him.

Dean was wrong in painting Sam’s escapes and lack of devotion to a broken family as negative, *regardless* of Dean’s own skewed thoughts and devotion. Dean’s feelings are valid, but his outlook on Sam’s childhood is extremely biased and morphed by his own issues – and I fear many fans share his POV without looking outside of the box and seeing why Dean is wrong in his claims in Dark Side of the Moon, regardless of how much it hurt him to see the tragedy that Sam was in considerable pain as a boy and that escape brought him solace.

Your comments, however, are spiraling into romanticizing Dean’s childhood and his actions later in adulthood. Dean is not 4 when he accuses Sam of abandoning his family. He is a fully-grown adult who – while we understand his reasoning – is not excused or right in lecturing his brother on leaving an abusive household. But you are grossly misunderstanding why I made this blog entry in the first place if you are immediately glossing over all of this contextual evidence I provided just to include “okay but Dean’s feelings were hurt!”. Dean’s feelings on the matter isn’t new information; in fact, that is why this entry was made. It was made because I continually saw negative comments about Sam in Dark Side of the Moon, with the commenter siding with Dean’s point of view and making it out like Dean’s feelings were hurt by a terribly selfish brother who had been protected by Dean and should have been content in his childhood by his brother.

You honesty don’t need to explain Dean in detail to me, and admittedly I was a little annoyed at first read of this comment that you felt the need to explain his side dramatically like I don’t know his side and his struggles…? Like I needed a refresher or I needed to see the light on Dean’s side…? That I was missing the emotional gravitas of Dean’s meta? I’ve smoothed out any irritability by assuming that wasn’t your intentions at all, but I think it’s important to point this out.

I know he carries trauma and I know his issues are deeply rooted in his difficult upbringing and the death of his mother. But this is making a post about Sam’s side of the coin all about Dean’s suffering and how Sam is causing it in some degree, when my post was intended to be about *Sam’s pain*, to give evidence that no, his childhood was not perfect, and Dean couldn’t protect him from everything, that he was not provided with things children deserved, and that Dean *did* see things through rose-tinted shades of brotherhood. This post is a record of Sam’s side that is often glossed over in favor of Dean’s side, of Dean’s feelings. And when I look at my entry and Sam’s pain and see it used in a negative light to comment on how much he hurt Dean, I don’t particularly feel super stellar about it…!

The crux of the matter is that your initial comment created a negative Sam portrait whether intended or not (“Sam didn’t think of Dean’s feelings, Sam left Dean, Dean chose Sam but Sam didn’t chose him and that hurts” I feel is an apt summary). The comment puts Dean’s feelings first on a Sam-themed post. You don’t need to defend Dean’s abandonment issues in a post detailing and giving insight into Sam’s childhood neglect and emotional struggle. I see Dean’s hurt feelings addressed constantly, and I see Dean’s hurt feelings used to railroad Sam’s feelings and push his reasons aside for wanting to run.

You commented to explain Sam didn’t understand Dean’s pain and to focus on Dean. Yes, you preluded this with “I get why Sam wanted to leave”, but you did ultimately go into Dean’s feelings instead and used Sam’s escape from his bad childhood specifically about how it made Dean hurt. This post wasn’t made for people to glance at and say “okay I get why Sam wanted to leave but let’s not forget about Dean’s feelings and how Sam hurt them”. You misunderstood my post if that was your go-to comment. This is a post about Sam’s childhood. This is about *his* pains and struggles. This post is not attacking Dean; it has important quotes from him to show why Sam’s family life is ruptured and broken, but it’s not an attack on his person or a road to open up discussion on how much Sam hurt him. This post is showing Sam’s side of Dark Side of the Moon. This post is about Sam. It shouldn’t even need to devolve into defending Dean’s feelings in the first place, because in doing that, it’s making Sam’s own feelings secondary in a post that is entirely supposed to be about HIM.

Not about Dean doing so much for Sam and always protecting him and Sam not choosing Dean and Sam breaking Dean’s heart over and over and over!

But about *him*. About giving *his* side a chance, about addressing *Sam’s* hurt feelings. And his own fractured childhood.

And as the author who made this, that kinda sucks to find someone missed the memo on a Sam post and wanted to talk about Sam inflicting pain on Dean instead.

One aspect of Supernatural that brought me into the fandom in Season 2 was the portrayal of two brothers who had been raised in a dysfunctional environment who were reconnecting.  They were finally questioning the assumptions about each other that they had been taught by their father’s definition of family and what it means to be a member of it.  Dean was questioning the assumption that Sam was selfish for making decisions based on what he needed.  Sam was questioning the assumption that Dean was John’s mindless soldier and only defined by hunting.  They were redefining their relationship away from John’s direct influence and creating bonds based on who they really were rather than the roles they played in their family. 

So, when I see discussions that conclude that Sam hurts Dean by leaving, I can’t help but think of how much this reflects our societies’ tendency to value self-sacrifice and how that makes abuse possible.  People who sacrifice in order to keep others okay are lauded for it.  But, it’s a double edged sword.  Is altruism and important value in society?  Yes, very much so.  But where is the line?  When does the expectation that you will light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm tip over into abuse?   

I would argue that the line is here, in what we see enacted between Sam and Dean.  They were socialized to ruthlessly cut off essential parts of themselves in order to maintain the family unit as John defined it.  Both of them were.  When they were young, one decided to cope by subsuming his personality and complying.  The other decided to cope by fighting it, and when he was given the ultimatum to comply or leave, he chose to leave.  

Did Sam leaving hurt Dean.  Does Sam’s leaving over the seasons of Supernatural hurt Dean emotionally?  Yes.  But what is the cost if Sam continues to sacrifice large parts of himself in order to keep Dean emotionally okay?  And are those okay to ask of anyone? I would argue that they are continuing to act out the old family dynamics of subsume your personality in the service of “family,” which leads ultimately to it being okay to ask Sam to allow Dean to kill him and his refusal to be labeled as “selfish.” 

But, there’s a significant cost to Dean, too, if we keep framing this level of self-sacrifice as being expected in order to maintain the relationship.  If Sam only stays because he hurts Dean’s feeling otherwise, then he is enabling Dean.  He’s reinforcing the belief that Dean only exists as a tool of the family.  That he’d never be able to have value and function outside of “family.”  So it only reinforces that family dynamic that they were challenging back in Season 2.  Perhaps those things they learned helped them survive what was waiting for them in Kripke’s mythology, but the cost is pretty horrific, to both of them.