bangingpatchouli:

hearseeno:

bangingpatchouli:

yeahcoolduck:

bangingpatchouli:

yeahcoolduck:

Don’t be insulted, but this made me laugh because, yes — “Feeling (F) is the most weakly developed trait for INTJs“ We’re developmentally disabled from an emotional standpoint. It’s not that we don’t feel emotions; we do and strongly, but that skill set isn’t developed well, so we don’t trust it. We rely on logic and rationality.

Haha I just feel like…affronted by the question because it’s so freakingapt, like…screw you, question!  My “Feeling” is so underdeveloped, I can’t even comprehend how underdeveloped it is.  It is pretty funny.  And I still don’t understand.  How is feelings a skill?  If mine are underdeveloped, what does developed look like?  Do people with developed Feeling know?  Do they just…feel it in their hearts to be true?  I need an analytical breakdown of this whole “Feeling” business, it just goes right over my head.

Right?! Haha! Is there an ‘F’ out there who can explain it in an orderly logical fashion? Here’s a passage about ‘F’s all other things being equal — INFJ:

The passion of their convictions is perfectly capable of carrying them past their breaking point and if their zeal gets out of hand, they can find themselves exhausted, unhealthy and stressed. This becomes especially apparent when INFJs find themselves up against conflict and criticism – their sensitivity forces them to do everything they can to evade these seemingly personal attacks, but when the circumstances are unavoidable, they can fight back in highly irrational, unhelpful ways. [X]

I’m sure every ‘T’ has been blindsided by such an unexpected moment with someone and said, WTF? Cause we’re all set to unravel this disagreement through logic oblivious to the fact that what we’ve said could be taken as personal, ya know?

bangingpatchouli:

Yeah, I’m borderline on just the one. I’m certainly no Myers-Briggs expert, but, in the case of say blogging about Supernatural, my personality type tends to focus on the issue or problem. We’re extremely rational and analytical. We have very strong opinions and state them. It doesn’t occur to us that others might take disagreement as a personal attack on them. (It’s especially difficult online where you can’t see or hear someone to judge their reaction) I have a difficult time communicating with people who respond in a highly emotional way because it just doesn’t make sense to me. You know? Like how can we figure out the problem and come to an understanding if we don’t discuss it rationally? So if someone misunderstands what I meant or thinks I’m just plain wrong and goes off on a rant, I can’t …

The Thinking/Feeling aspect determines how we make decisions and cope with emotions:

• Thinking individuals are tough, follow their minds, focus on objectivity and rationality.
• Feeling individuals are sensitive, follow their hearts, focus on harmony and cooperation. [X]

So, yeah, I think it partially explains some shit that went down yesterday around here.

Bwaahhaaha!  A “T” wants a logical breakdown of “Feeling.”  That’s great!  If ever there was an impulse that is the pure expression of an MBTI type…

Okay, I’ll give it a stab, given that I’m a strong NF who grew up with a father and brother who were very strong NTs and who has had to develop her T skills.

If you bypass Isabel Myers and take it back to Carl Jung, he defines the Feeling and Thinking Functions as RATIONAL functions, functions we use when we reflect on something, by which we make judgments.  He defines the Feeling function as something very separate from emotion. To quote Jung, “Feeling is distinguished from affect by the fact that it produces no perceptible physical innervations, i.e., neither more nor less than an ordinary thinking process. ”  

So, Feeling can be a process of reflection that is colored by emotion, or it can be “cold” and separate from it, just like the logical thought process can be influenced by emotion, or it can be “purer” process. (If you want to read about Jung’s model of personality typology, this is a good summary.)  Where Thinking is about making decisions based on the logical analysis, Feeling is about making decisions based on an analysis of the rightness/wrongness of the things that are perceived by sensation or intuition.  

Everyone has a bit of both.  ”Feelers” lead with Feeling, but verify with logic, where “Thinkers” lead with logic, and verify with Feeling.  The thing that makes us different is which one takes the lead and what kind of balance we have between the two.  

For as logical as I am able to be and as much as I am able to think critically, logic will always serve the purpose of “Feeling,” where it always seemed to me that the NT’s in my life lead with logic.  If they’ve worked out something logically, then that’s the way it IS.  

So, I make judgment calls based upon a sense of what feels “right” or what feels “wrong.”  This drives my father nuts, but given that my “Feeling” side is highly developed, it never leads me wrong.  My regrets only come when I’ve logic’d myself out of listening to that niggling sense of “this is what’s important in this situation.” 

I can only describe my own experience, so who’s to say that “Thinkers” don’t experience it the same way:

My “Feeling” comes in many, many shades of different colors, you might say.  There are senses of where something falls along a continuum of rightness/wrongness, good fit/bad fit, something isn’t adding up/everything fits, I trust this part/but not that part.  It captures the source of that intuitive response: I’m feeling this because of my personal history of ______/ this thing I’m feeling isn’t wholely me I must be influenced by something/ that’s your headspace I’m picking up on / this feeling is much like something I’ve experienced before – here’s what’s the same – here’s what’s different – here’s what’s important.  When I have a problem that needs solving, I don’t find it helpful to use words.  I don’t find it helpful to talk about it.  Instead, I find it much more helpful to fantasize about it.  ”How would it play out if I took this tack?” kinds of fantasies running in my head all the time. Through them I gather data about my intuitive response to different aspects of choices and consequences.  

So, it’s not pure emotion.  Neither is it pure logic, but I lead with Feeling – that intuitive sense of where things fit- and then logic serves the purpose of refining it.  My emotional and intuitive judgments are data that inform my decisions, where my sense is that “Thinkers” tend more to see emotion as something to set aside and keep from influencing the thinking necessary for decision-making – or that that emotional/intuitive response is insufficient data and logic leads.  

I thought this science news article and podcast on the processes involved in moral decision-making illustrate the differences in the two approaches pretty nicely:
Joshua Greene’s research on brain systems involved in moral judgment – right/wrong belief versus cost-benefit analysis.

  

Okay, but I’m confused now, because as an NF, you’re an iNtuitive-Feeler and your dad and brother are iNuitive-Thinkers — in Myers-Briggs intuition is defined as relying on deeper thought rather than immediate data. So the term is confusing in MB.

Reading around at websites, I found one that kind of takes the fluffiness out of Feeling and basically says that Feelers rely more heavily on social considerations, following their heart and considering the feelings of others to make decisions, which I think goes along with what you’re saying. I don’t think we’re talking about intuition in a sixth sense way.

Well, you have to remember this was all translated from German in the first place, so who knows what was lost and how poorly the choice of English words fit what he originally meant.

People who are primarily Sensates tend to live in the physical world.  They seek out experiences, sensation seeking, and work best with the real/concrete.  The N of “Intuitive” refers to seeing the potential in things, working with the world of ideas.  For example, both my father and I love the process of planning to make something almost more than the physical act of doing it. We’re armchair artisans.  When I plant gardens I end up stopping every few minutes and getting lost in the idea of what I hope it’s going to end up being.  It may take me a lot longer, but it keeps the process enjoyable.

About what you found about Feelers relying more heavily on social considerations, etc.: Kinda?  A psychological healthy Feeler, maybe?  Jung tends to talk about root processes associated with the different functions, and the MBTI and associated websites tend to talk about surface presentation of how those root processes are potentially expressed.  It’s analogous to the difference between genotype and phenotype.  

So a psychologically healthy and compassionate Feeler is going to consider the feelings of others. A not so healthy Feeler is going to emotionally manipulate and choose things that feel “right” for them.  A psychologically healthy and compassionate Thinker is going to choose end goals to their processes that illuminate and advance the good.  A not so healthy Thinker can get pretty Machiavellian.  

Let’s see if this helps: